Verses Used By Limited Redemptionalists
Isaiah 53:5- But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.Those that believe the atonement was limited to the elect often use this verse to show that Christ was killed for them. In context, the Jews are whom the pronouns are referred to. Did the Lamb of God die for Israel and Israel only? That would be absurd to state that. If limited proponents wish to use this as a "proof" verse for limited atonement, they choose a good one, for it limited the death for the Jews only. Because the death extended to the Gentiles also, we know that this passage is not the best one for Calvinist to use.
Matthew 1:21- And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.Again, if this verse limits the atonement, it would limit it to Jesus’ people- the Jews. Matthew begins by explaining in great detail who "his people" are.
Matthew 20:28- Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.Matthew 26:28-For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.Hebrews 9:28- So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.Calvinist and others that limited the extent of the death of Christ use these passages to say, " See, the Bible says many. Why does it not say all?" They wish to use the verses to show that Jesus only died for a select group of people, not every individual. But do they prove that Jesus died for them and them only? If Jesus only died for many because these verses say many, then some problems arise. Not only do we have the difficulty found with Isaiah 53:5 and Matthew 1:21, but Galatians 2:20 must now be taken into consideration, which states "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Did Christ die for Paul only? Not all aspects of a truth are always found in one verse. This is proven by Galatians 2:20 and Matthew 20:28.
Unlimited redepmtionalists have no trouble with these passages. Christ certainly died for many, and also for Paul. Concerning Matthew 20:28, Lightner states the following: " The preposition translated "for" clearly teaches substitution- one in the place of another" Accomplished exegete Tasker agrees in his commentary on Matthew. He says, it "conveys the idea of substitution. Christ was to die in the place of (anti) many the death which they, but not He, deserved.
John 10:11, 15- I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.vs.11As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Vs.15That Jesus died for the sheep is not the issue. Yet, does the proof that Jesus only died for the sheep lie in these statements? Strict Calvinist must insert the word" only "before the phrase " for the sheep". To further illustrate, consider the Sunday school teacher that give her entire class a piece of candy. As she passes one of her pupil’s parents in the hall, she comments " I gave Johnny a piece of candy today for attending." She accurately stated a fact, yet the entire class received a prize. In is only postulated in the mind of the parent that Johnny and Johnny alone got some candy.
Acts 20:28- Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Ephesians 5:25- Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;Lightner again sums it up with this statement: " Unless the church is made to refer to the saints of all ages (which cannot be done without departing from a literal interpretation; cf. Matt. 16:18; 1 Cor. 10:32; Heb. 12:22,) this passage must also be extended beyond the borders of that new entity established entity.... No one who believes Israel and the church are distinct and entirely separate can appeal to this passage in Ephesians 5 to support the limited redemptionlist view.
In taking in all of these verses, unlimited redemptionlists have zero difficulty in harmonizing God’s Word with their view of the extent of the atonement. The same cannot be said of the other side of the coin. Not one single verse in the Bible says Jesus did not die for every individual. As we will see, the Bible plainly and clearly teaches the blood was available to anyone.
Verses Used By Unlimited Redemptionlists
Multiplied dozens of verses are used to proclaim the great Biblical truth that Jesus died for all individuals. Most of all the following verses must be rewritten to fit the mold of Calvinism. We will begin with verses that use the word "whosoever". It should be noted that in his theology book, Chafer tells us " the word whosoever is used at least 110 times in the New Testament, and always with the unrestricted meaning"
John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Perhaps there is no other verse more memorized and more quoted by believers everywhere. The love of God and His plan of redemption are evident in this great passage of Scripture. When one reads the context of this verse, he is reminded that just as anyone could look to the brazen serpent and live, so can anyone that looks to Jesus. Wiersbe wrote in his book "He (Jesus) became the ‘uplifted serpent.’ The serpent in Moses’ day brought physical life to dying Jews; but Jesus Christ gives eternal life to anyone who trusts Him. He has salvation for the whole world!"
Romans 10:13-For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.Revelation 22:17-And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hearth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.As one will see while debating a Calvinist, they restrict the word "whosoever" when dealing with salvation, but not other subjects. Of the verses that say "whosoever", none read "whosoever of the elect". One must ask "Why?"
Luke 19:10- For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.What a wondrous statement. Hours could be spent expounding on the truths of this verse. How does a limited redemptionalist handle this verse? They retreat to tactic of twisting Scripture. There is no evidence that this verse means anything else but that Jesus came to save that which was lost. Everyone is lost at one time or another.Retreat by restrictionPerhaps the saddest fact of the whole concept of limited atonement is the automatic restriction put on the words "all, world, whosoever, etc". When pertaining to salvation, it is a given that the preceding words apply to the elect. Everywhere else, study is put into the context of how the word is used. The inconsistency and lack of scholarship is embarrassing and lacks the blessings of God. 2 Timothy 2:15 clearly states, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." When one fails to properly study and divide, it is a shame to him. What if we were to restrict the word "all" anywhere we wished? How about I Corinthians 10:31-"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." Consider John 1:3-"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." Incongruous, is it not? Yet when it comes to Titus 2: 11, which states "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"- routine restriction is applied.
I Timothy 2:4 falls prey to the same attack- "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Because of the various views of the extent of the atonement, these verses provide only moderate difficulty for some. However, as seen by those on the frontlines of debate, retreat is often made by restriction."World" is strongly constrained, perhaps most famously in John 3:16. The cry among limited redemptionalists is that the "world" mentioned is the "world of the elect", or the "world in the sense tribes and nations, not just the Jews". John 1:29 and 1 John 2:2 face similar guillotines. John Calvin answered in his commentary about I John 2:2 that "I pass by the dotages of the fanatics, who under this pretence extend salvation to all the reprobate, and therefore to Satan himself." I cannot speak for the fanatics that Calvin mentions, but nowhere does the Bible say that salvation is offered for the angels. Just the opposite is attested to in Scripture. I Peter 1:12 is proof of this- "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into,". Furthermore, the death of Christ was not to save all of mankind, but to make it possible.
Worked out by weird wording
If strict Calvinists were correct in their view of the atonement, how strange would I John 2:2 read? It would read similar to this: And he is the propitiation for our sins (sins of the elect): and not for ours (the elect) only, but also for the sins of the whole world (world of the elect). Other verses are butchered in similar manners. It is here I insert a quote that is long, yet important for one to see the danger of this practice.
Robert Lightner uses this in his book The Death Christ Died. (p.108)"I am willing to grant, for the sake of giving your objection all possible force, that these words are used in the various senses you mention. Not, however, that I believe the word 'world' is ever used for God's people as distinguished from others. What then, is the force of your objection? It is plainly this, that because these words are sometimes used in a limited sense, they may be so used in the texts I have quoted, and that you are at liberty to put this construction upon them if you please. But where will this principle lead us? Let us apply it to a few cases. The word God is sometimes used to signify a civil ruler; therefore, according to this principle of interpretation, it may be so understood in any given text. 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,' may mean, In the beginning a civil leader created the heavens and the earth. The word everlasting is sometimes used to signify a limited duration; therefore, it may be so understood in any given text; and, 'These shall go away into everlasting punishment,' may mean, These shall go away into a punishment of limited duration. And when the saints are promised everlasting life, it may mean a life of limited duration. And when Christ is styled the 'Mighty God, the Everlasting Father,' it may mean, the mighty civil ruler, the Father of a limited duration. The word salvation is sometimes used to signify deliverance from a temporary calamity therefore, it may be so understood in any given text, and there may be no salvation but deliverance from temporal calamities. The word resurrection is sometimes used to signify regeneration; therefore it may be so understood in any given text, and there may be not resurrection foretold in the Scripture but regeneration. The word baptism is sometimes used to signify sufferings; therefore, it may be so understood in any given text; and the command to the apostles to go out and baptize all nations may mean that they [109] should go and inflict sufferings upon all nations. A principle of interpretation which leads into such absurdities cannot be admitted as a correct rule of interpreting the Word of God. Under the operation of such a rule, the Bible would become, as some pretend it is, a book by which anything can be supported, and nothing proved. Every part of it would become 'vague and ambiguous in its meaning.' ''
Odd Offers
The offer of the gospel to every creature is Biblical and mandatory. While some Calvinists insist on not taking the responsibility seriously, others do it with tongue in check. Many Calvinists emphasize that although the atonement is particular, Christ died only for the elect, yet the offer of the gospel is for everyone. This is the unexplainable paradox that limited proponents are content to live with. What kind of farce is this? God offers His Son, yet He did not offer His Son. Because this teaching is closely intertwined with unconditional election, a brief mention of this dangerous doctrine will do.Calvinism teaches that from eternity past, God has unconditionally elected certain ones to salvation regardless of any merit on their part. Unconditional emphasizes that election is not conditioned on God’s foreknowledge that certain ones will believe in Christ. Election is not conditioned on man’s ability or response. Unconditional emphasizes that God alone initiates the process. If God has elected certain ones to salvation from eternity past, then it logically follows that He will also provide for the redemption of precisely those whom He has chosen.Thus we have missionaries, preachers, and Sunday School teachers wasting time by giving the gospel to those it was not really offered to. Imagine poor Paul, as he labored to convert the Jews and Gentiles. What did he really mean when he penned Romans 10:1- "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." Consider Matthew 9:38-" Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth laborers into his harvest." Did Jesus had the desire to see more laborers wasted their time? Did He really want people to give the gospel to those that He did not die for? What would the Lord need more laborers for: a world where He died for everyone, or a world where He only died for some? Remember, in context Jesus was seeing the masses-the multitudes.If Jesus died for only some, then it stands to reason that it is not remotely possible that everyone could be saved. The basis for a worldwide verbal offer of the gospel is the reality that Jesus bled for the entire world. The converse side is a contradiction, not a paradox, of "thus saith the Lord". William Evens correctly relates that " The offer of the Gospel to all is not a pretence but a reality on the part of God."
3 comments:
If John 3:16 does not speak of the atonement, then what does it speak of? If the death of Christ is the atonement, then John 3:16 seems to speak of it well. Even if no one was saved, Jesus still showed God's love, mercy, and grace. There is no way to divide up the blood and say, "This goes to him and this goes to her" Jesus died for SIN. To say anything else would be to misunderstand even basic Scripture.
As for attacking the body of Christ, we both know that is a cop-out for exposing error. I am exposing the part of the Body that wishes to teach, contrary to the Bible, that God only loved a few. I am exposing the lie that Jesus only died for a few. I am exposing those that teach theories that directly go again hundreds of plain, clear verses. This part of the Body wishes for the whole world to know about Jesus and the death He died for them. This part of the body is teaching God loves the entire world and desires their salvation. This part of the Body is warning people of the most dangerous thing we can do- misrepresent the God of the Bible.
So then you're teaching that:
1. THe death of Jesus was not enough to cover all types of sin (your 'unbelief' theory).
2. The death of Jesus was not enough to pardon sin, because people are still paying for them in Hell.
3. The death of Jesus in actuality accomplished nothing.
Your view of the atonement is disgusting and unscriptural.
Hey, how about you provide those "hundreds of plain, clear verses" that show that Jesus suffered on behalf of the men in Hell prior to His birth, as well as the men in Hell afterwards.
As far as "plain and clear" goes, you have but yourself to blame for never going deeper than the surface. That's the difference between milk and meat.
And for the record, my theology isn't a reflection of my education. This is the result of months and months of prayer, study, and open-mindedness.
P.S....you wouldn't be erasing everyone's posts if they were obviously wrong. Scared or something?
P.P.S. I've written and failed to send half a dozen replies to various posts on this page. You should be proud, lol.
Why do you accuse me of teaching that the death could not cover the sin of unbelief, when you teach that the death did not even cover most of the sins ever committed?
Your view and those that hold so carefully to a flawed theory teaches that the death succured the salvation of the elect. The problems with this are numerous. For one, it takes out any responsibiltiy that man has to believe. More on this in later post.
You accuse me of teaching that the death accomplished nothing. I know that Calvinist are used to twisting Scripture and misquoting it. It shows in your response. Nowhere did I say it accomplished nothing. Nowhere. You have twisted plain writing, a tactic Calvinist are use to.
As for your meat and milk, digest this passage- Isaiah 53:6- All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. This would be just one of the verses that say Jesus has the sins of "non-elect" laid on Him. Who went astray? The nation of Israel. Whose sins were laid on Jesus? Exactly.
When you consider you theology and your open mindedness, think about this passage- COl 2:1-8
1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 ¶ And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Where would the open mindedness be found in this passage?
Richard, if you allow it, this could be a falling out point with us. I have no desire to see that happen. We can still talk and such without this dividing us. We can both converse without bring this up. There are plenty of friendships between our guys. Don't let the Devil win this one.
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